The NBA media sometimes has a difficult time evaluating LaMelo Ball. It’s why there’s still a question over whether or not he’s an All-Star despite averaging over 30 points per game for the Charlotte Hornets.

Team record, his overall efficiency, and more are used to detract from his game, and Briand Windhorst and Tim McMahon had a hard time truly determining Ball’s value on a recent Hoop Collective episode.

The Hoop Collective discussed the top players in each age group. At only 23 years old, LaMelo Ball’s peers in that age range are more often rookies or players still on rookie contracts. He is unique in that he’s on an extension despite being so young.

Nevertheless, this prompted the debate over how good Ball really is. “[We evaluate him] the same way we did over the summer. Empty stats guy,” McMahon said. Windhorst added, “He’s averaging 30 points… It’s not winning basketball.”

McMahon then offered up a take that is becoming all-too-common: that Ball should go elsewhere. “Maybe LaMelo matures and proves that he can be the leader of a winning team. Maybe it’s a change of scenery and that happens,” he said. “I’m skeptical.”

The NBA analyst also noted that Ball probably shouldn’t be taking as many threes per game as he does. “He’s shooting 34% because so many of the threes that he takes are ridiculous shots,” McMahon said. “Off dribble, blindfolded, while he’s doing a selfie on Instagram. What are we doing?”

There was a bit of acknowledgment that the Hornets’ shortcomings as a team and an organization hurt Ball. Basketball is a team sport where an individual has the most impact on the game, but he’s still just one of five players on the court, and 10 or so that will appear in a given game overall.

Mark Williams’ return to form highlights Hornets’ narrow loss to Bulls

Tre Mann injury update: Hornets guard is doing more but there’s still no good news

Hornets land top shooting guard in latest NBA Mock Draft