Brian Windhorst was rumored to be one of the ESPN NBA insiders who could replace Adrian Wojnarowski this fall, but it turns out that type of job is maybe the last thing he wants.

In a surprise appearance on Thanasis Antetokounmpo’s (brother of Giannis and former Milwaukee Bucks player) podcast, The Thanalysis Show, this week, Windhorst took NBA fans behind the scenes on why he thinks basketball media is “not in a great place” right now.

When Antetokounmpo asked Windhorst about his hottest takes and most regrettable soundbites at ESPN, he said he has too many to count, in part because that’s what plays on the airwaves these days.

“NBA media right now, we’re not in a great place,” Windhorst said. “Because I think we’re devaluing things … that help build the league up. Like one of the things [is] storytelling. Everything is too short right now. People are too focused on tweets, too focused on guys getting crossed-over, guys getting dunked on, guys getting embarrassed, social media posts. Not as much on storytelling, learning about players and learning their backgrounds, what I call chronicling the season.”

Windhorst praised classic NBA reporting, like what he watched on Inside Stuff on NBC (later ABC and NBA TV) as a kid. On that show, Ahmad Rashad and Willow Bay celebrated the league’s athletes and brought viewers closer to the games and the players.

Fandom is better and the league benefits “when you’re really into your team and you know about all the players and … there’s special features on them,” Windhorst argued.

From within ESPN, Windhorst sees firsthand how management and producers push the conversation toward debate and big-market news. They tell talent like Windhorst that audience data proves that’s the content viewers want.

“ESPN responds to what the audience says it wants because we can analyze the data so much better now. And so if the audience says it wants debate about who the Lakers should be running their offense through or whether LeBron should play back-to-backs or whatever, all of the stuff is a debate,” the former Cleveland Plain Dealer reporter said. “That is what it’s become … but there isn’t a story where they tell a story about Dalton Knecht or Jarred Vanderbilt. They don’t tell that story, and [it’s] because the data says the clicks go on two people debating about whether the Lakers should trade Anthony Davis or something.

While hot take personalities like Skip Bayless, Colin Cowherd and Max Kellerman have departed the network in recent years, ESPN is largely shaped in the image of First Take host Stephen A. Smith. And Smith is right there during the biggest NBA games and moments on NBA Countdown. Next to him often is Michael Wilbon, who brought the debate format to ESPN even before Smith popularized it on First Take.

Of course, Windhorst didn’t name these people—or any of his colleagues. They may simply be doing as they’re told, as well. Reading between the lines of Windhorst’s words, the suits at ESPN encourage his constant opinions on the L.A. and New York teams.

“My bosses would say that’s all well and good, but if you want the ratings, you better talk about the Lakers or the Warriors,” Windhorst said. “I would say let’s lead storytelling instead of following. Instead of following the crowd, let’s lead and try to get the crowd.”

Talking too much about the most famous teams is nothing new in sports media. Charles Barkley loves to tease ESPN for it, and many who leave major networks describe their frustration about that overemphasis.

Still, for a trusted, well-sourced NBA voice like Windhorst to say these trends have put NBA media in a bad place overall is quite the statement. With viewership down early in the season and more prominent voices railing against the style of play and the approach of star players to the regular season, Windhorst is clearly not the only one feeling this way.

Windhorst’s point of view is that storytelling bolsters the sport. That in turn circles back to bring people through ESPN’s channels, considering they air NBA games and studio programming. The conversation doesn’t end with the winner of a debate or the loudest voice. It creates nuanced curiosity that develops real fans and loyal audiences.

His bosses clearly disagree.

[Thanalysis Show on YouTube]