Kevin Zavaglia took his first job with Verizon in 1994 as a junior sales associate, back when the company was still Bell Atlantic. Flash forward 30 years, and Zavaglia has spent nearly his entire career at the retailer, rising up the ranks to become Chief Sales Officer.

However, Zavaglia’s single-employer experience is becoming less and less common, particularly in retail, where historically high attrition rates hover at around 60%. Add to that the economic and geopolitical challenges of the past few years that have exacerbated an already outsized problem.

At its core is a fundamental issue with retail work, particularly for those on the frontlines — these jobs are not often seen as long-term opportunities. Complex work schedules, relatively low pay and few opportunities for advancement are among the reasons.

In fact, even Zavaglia, when he first started at Verizon, didn’t see it as a career, but rather just a short-term job to make ends meet, until one fortuitous weekend when his manager went out of town and left him in charge.

“No one had ever left me in charge before; it was the first time anyone showed me that I could have a career and not a job,” Zavaglia recounted. “On Mondays we did our sales meetings, and I took that opportunity so seriously, I even prepared an agenda. That one five-minute conversation changed my life. Now I try to bring that into our organization every day. We have so many talented people throughout our organization, and the impact you have as a leader on their careers is so important.”

Zavaglia sat down with Retail TouchPoints to share how Verizon nurtures its frontline staff so they too can have that “lightbulb moment,” and how other retailers can do the same.

Retail TouchPoints: When you were younger, what did you think you wanted to be when you grew up?

Kevin Zavaglia: My degree is in criminal justice, and I wanted to be a state trooper. My brother was a police officer; my uncle and my cousins were police officers. But I got into sales part time and [when I graduated] I sat down with the Chief of Police, and said, “Okay, I’m ready now.” I really wanted to get into the police academy. And he said, “How much money are you making?” I gave him the number. “How many nights are you working?” None. “How many weekends; how many holidays?” And that’s where my career path took a different turn.

RTP: Many people work retail at some point in their lives, but not many reach the C-suite like you have. To what do you credit your rise and success?

Zavaglia: It was a couple things. Number one, you have to constantly be learning. Number two, you have to be able to take risks. I didn’t take a job early on [in my career] because it didn’t lead to the path that I felt I needed to go. It was in telesales; nothing wrong with telesales, but for my career journey, that role was not going to lead me to becoming a President, which was where I wanted to go. Also, mentors; I was very fortunate to have some great mentors along the way.

I think it also has to do with the training [you get at] Verizon. If you look at my Market Presidents, of six, four of them started at the frontline. [With] the skill set we teach you, you learn sales, but more importantly, you learn customer experience, you learn marketing, you learn operations. We’re going through the hurricanes right now actually, so you learn emergency response and readiness. You get this diverse background at Verizon that I’m not sure [associates get] at other companies.

RTP: So many people start out in retail viewing it, as you did initially, as just a job. How can leadership help their employees have a “lightbulb moment” like you did and shift their thinking?

Zavaglia: [At Verizon] the majority of our employees have moved up, so people who are in management and director roles, senior director roles, VPs, they offer real-life examples, just like me.

But the other piece that I think is unique here is the training that we provide our employees so that they are prepared to go into those types of roles. If you’re a retail rep, we use IVR [interactive voice response systems] for security training, we use AI to build quotes, so you get these unique experiences that I don’t think other retailers offer. That allows you, when you go into an interview [for a role higher up], to have this broad depth of innovation, of creativity, of experience.

Also, we always tell people, the first time you get a manager job is the first time you become a manager. We know that, and I think we’re willing to take those chances on people as well, especially on our employees.

RTP: What were your favorite and least favorite parts about being a store-level associate?

Zavaglia: My favorite part was the compensation checks, there’s no question. But you have to work hard. If you’re coming here to punch a time clock, it’s probably not the right company for you. You’ve got to put in the effort. You’ve got to stay abreast of the industry, our promotions, your customers. So it’s a lot of hard work, but it’s very rewarding. My parents blessed me with a good work ethic. My dad was a janitor, and he worked nights as a short-order cook; he worked six days a week, so that instilled this work ethic in me that to this day I still have.

RTP: Do you think a commission structure helps with employee retention?

Zavaglia: I certainly think it motivates employees. To me, commission is a little bit of a bonus structure. In retail, you can easily hide in the back of the store. But what we have is called “My Book of Business,” so even when it’s slow, our retail reps are making outbound calls to customers who they have leads with that they haven’t closed yet. They’re calling customers who they’ve already sold, making sure that everything is working properly. They’re getting referrals. So that commission structure really does drive that incremental behavior.

RTP: What skills are most important in a frontline employee who’s looking to move up the ranks of a retail business?

Zavaglia: I think early on to get to frontline manager, you’re looking for people that have that energy and work ethic. The higher up you go, you’re looking for that strategic mindset — the ability to adapt, to change, communication skills. It’s about how you motivate a larger audience. It’s a lot easier to manage a small store. But then when we make people district managers, and now instead of having 10 people you have 70, the first thing we say to them is, now you’re managing in a remote environment, so how are you going to motivate people when you’re not in front of them every day? Learning those types of skills is very important.

RTP: There’s a lot of new technology available to make the employee experience easier and more rewarding. Is Verizon trying out any of these things?